Discussion: The 'Phoenix' files

Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

yeah... i know... i still can't beleive he's gone... still don't get tha veil thing...

well, about things that are worse that are death... when Lupin told harry about the demetors kiss, he said that was worse than death... but dumbledore doesn't like demdtors...

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 12:44 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

The veil thing is weird, but then you have to remember that the whole world is magical. Magic is not always used for good purposes, and it would only make sense that something that dangerous be kept in a place where people ought not go prying around. As the veil is probably not well understood by most wizards, it does belong in the Dept. of Mysteries. Of course, it is understood that people who pass through this veil don't come back. It's just hard to accept. Even in real life, death sometimes comes rather suddenly. You can't undo a fatal car accident, either.....

As for death... Death happens to everybody. If anything, Sir Nicolas's discussion at the end of the book makes it quite clear that there is an opportunity to proceed on to a different kind of life after death. For people who understand death, it is really only the beginning of the next great adventure. For those who don't understand it, it only brings misery.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 12:52 PM EST

Witch

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 558

Quagmire127 says:

Where are you guys getting these new names for Book 6?

Like many others, I didn't cry right when he died. I only got really sad when Harry was talking to Dumbledore and Nick.

I really liked Lockhart in this book; I don't know why.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 12:57 PM EST

DADA Master

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 11649

Professor Moony says:

Is the penseive showing the veiwer the remembered incident as it really happened or is this just a chamber for holding the memories of the user complete with their perspective and predjudices?

Maybe I'm trying to make excuses for James(excuses that even Lupin and Sirius didn't make)but, wouldn't the memory Harry saw be tainted by Snape's own predjudices and perspective. It is true that two people can see the same thing and come away with completely different versions of what happened. Further, this one out of context incident certainly doesn't justify Snape's air of victimization and apparent hostility toward Harry....come-on, the memory wasn't really "that"
bad (although it was interupted and maybe they really did fully de-pants him hanging there..lol)

I do love the way JK is infusing the story with multi-layered characters, the evil are truly evil but the "good guys" are flawed and not perfect.

Finally, Harry witnessed his parents death (or did he?) so why is he just now seeing the thestrals. Was he too young for these deaths to
make the necessary psycic impression to see the death horses, is this a mistake, or (as is probably the case) the truth much more complex
that we have learned so far?

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 1:02 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

phoenixfeathers...remember there was a spell on the house so no one could find it. Dumbledore was the secret keeper so unless he personally told someone where the house was, no one could find it even if they walked right past it. This was the spell that hid Harry's parents (wormtail was the secret keeper) from Volde until Wormtail told Volde where they were.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 1:10 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

also...my theory on why the Cruciatis curse didn't work on Bellatrix: Harry did want to hurt her, but he doesn't have the evil heart that enjoys seeing others tortured. I know I could not watch anyone (even someone who deserves to be killed) being tortured, with a sense of enjoyment. I'd be rather horrified. Harry has a good heart, that's all.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 1:15 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

Linc21: About those thestrals... My theory on this one is that you have to actually see the death. Harry was a three-month-old baby. Most babies I know do not keep their eyes on any one thing for very long, and even if he did see at least one of them die, he may not have comprehended it. What confuses me is, didn't Harry watch Quirrell die, too? So why didn't he see them by the beginning of his second year?

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 1:16 PM EST

Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

well, at this point... i feel i could point out way too many critical stuff... but anyway...

thestrals--i have concluded that this was a mistake...

Hermionie--i have not heard this yet... i want more about her!!!! why was her patronus an otter, why is she in gryffindor and not ravenclaw, what about her parents, how is she so ahead of everyone else... i just have this feeling that she is hiding something really big and important.... oh well....

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 1:27 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

I just wrote two posts and they didn't go through. Ugh! Anyway, my theory on why Harry couldn't perform a proper cruciatus curse on Bellatrix was that he doesn't have an evil heart that enjoys and relishes the pain and torture of others. I mean, even if I wanted someone to die (if they were a murderer for example) I would not purely enjoy watching them be tortured. I might think "good" but I would probably turn away from the sight. So, Harry's heart is pure and good. That's just my opinion.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 1:29 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

Amelia P.: I think we can only hope to get a good answer to this one in book 6 or 7. There was that testing center at the Ministry, but that doesn't entirely explain how they learned to do it...

strawbeez: When books get this big there are bound to be mistakes. What's amazing is that there aren't really THAT many of them. Again, see my earlier post; I'm not convinced the thestrals were a mistake. As for Hermione..... As she is such a major character I'm sure there will be a lot more information forthcoming. But, I think the answer as to why she is in Gryffindor is the same as the reason Harry ended up in Gryffindor. It's where she wanted to go most. And it makes sense. She has both Gryffindor-like and Ravenclaw-like qualities.

I'm not convinced that she is necessarily hiding something big and important. What makes you think so?

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 1:34 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

Amelia Poppington...very good point!! We all from "Hogwarts, a History" (thanks, Hermione LOL) that people can't apperate/disapperate within the school. Hmmmm...I have no idea.

strawbeez girl...I am right with you on Hermione! I definitely want to know more about her too (she is my fav character). Maybe she was put in Gryff. instead of Ravenclaw for the same reason that Harry was put into Gryff. instead of Slytherin. I don't know if the otter has a meaning yet...it might. She certainly is ahead of everyone else. I mean, she studies 24/7 so that might be part of it (I was just like her...maybe that's why I love her). Things that take less book studying and more natural talent (like flying) she is not so good at. I hope she plays a big part in the next books. I mean, where would Harry be without her?

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 1:40 PM EST

Squib

House: Gryffindor
Points: 166

Her-My-Oh-Nee says:

I'm sure someone has already posted this, but I don't think Harry saw Quirrell die in the first book, which is why he didn't see the thestrals until after Cedric died. Maybe, I don't know.

"Quirrell screamed and tried to throw Harry off--the pain in Harry's head was building-he couldn't see-he could only hear Quirrell's terrible shrieks...He felt Quirrell's arm wrenched from his grasp, knew all was lost, and fell into blackness, down...down...down..."

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 1:52 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

Lewen, I don't know that I necessarily LIKE Harry's character change either. But it has happened. The only thing I can think of is that people generally don't like being kept in the dark, especially when things concern them. He never received what he felt were adequate explanations to understand what was happening to him throughout the book. Without proper knowledge of the circumstances, he couldn't really know what he was supposed to be doing, and walking around in the dark does tend to make a lot of people rather frustrated.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 1:57 PM EST

Jahboh says:

Wow! I check back in an hour and there are 50 more comments. LOL. Well, I'm/have been re-reading book 5 right now and typing up an analysis as I go along. (Hopefully it will be done in a few weeks.) So far, I've posted the analysis for the first 5 chapters at www.geocities.com/jahboh (click on the blue flame) if any of you guys are interested. I'd love your thoughts! (owlpost8@hotmail.com)

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 2:11 PM EST

Marauder

House: Gryffindor
Points: 3954

jade says:

Well as i said before i loved this book. it was fantastic. neville so brillant glad he has a bigger role.ginny grown up alot she is becoming her own person.this book was fantastic dumbledore was so good and the way he departed from his office was funny. harrys anger was so justified i know i would have acted the same. i still adore the marauders except rat boy even after what harry saw in the pensieve we just saw snapes view and i am sure he was horrible to james and sirius too, even lupin said do not judge him on that memory and i shall not. my favourite book now

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 2:16 PM EST

KaeSever says:

My thoughts on the book.. I loved it! It was slow at the beginning though. I never expected Sirius to die, I thought it was Arthur Weasley for sure when Harry saw him being bit.

About Harry being 'the snake' when Arthur was bit, maybe it was Voldemort's snake, Nagini? (Just a thought.)

I love the whole part about Occlumency and Leglimency(sp?). Since Snape is so good at Occlumency, it makes sense now that he spies for Dumbledore, obviously making him a good liar or something.

Tonks was an enjoyable character, I feel she plays more of a part in Book Six and Seven. Her character was developed for a reason.

About the Cho and Harry thing going on.. It would never work. At the end of the book, I read somewhere that Harry wasn't surprised or hurt that Cho was going out with someone else ALREADY. So it won't work out..
I saw so many hints for Ron and Hermione.. I don't like the idea of that couple really. When Hermione kissed on the cheek was cute. And when Hermione defended him from Fred and George's teasing. And all their arguements.
It kind of surprised me when Harry told them to to stop bickering.. something like that. I think his behaviour was neccessary in the book.
Hormones don't neccessarily have to mean you freak when you see someone you like. It could also affect that way you act.. JKR really put that together. :D
As for Harry and Hermione, if someone wanted to find something between the lines.. I guess they'd find a platonic relationship. Although, I'm hoping for it to be something more. I was worried for Harry when he thought Hermione had died on him. He didn't even look at her properly..

The whole thing in the snogfest teashop was amusing. Harry was nervous to touch Cho's hand. Many seem to think Harry and Hermione have a thing going on, considering how Cho blew up on him about him wanting to go talk to Hermione. :o
Ooh, then there's that part when he talks to Hermione about Cho. She tells him what he should of said to Cho and how ugly he thought she was. But Harry said he didn't think she was ugly. :D

Anyway, the book was great.. although it disappointed me somewhat. There wasn't that much for Draco Malfoy. I was wondering about whether he had the Dark Mark yet. But when Harry says "Voldemort" in front of Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle, they look frightened.. maybe they alread have the Dark Mark? Just a thought.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 2:51 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

What do you all think -- are there any hints for books 6 or 7 in the really slow part of book 5? Could there be any reason that all of that material is there?

I still think a lot has to change for any of the relationships that people speculate about to be true.

(And, everyone, thanks for the reminder that Harry never saw Quirrell die -- I can't believe I missed that.)

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 3:17 PM EST

Headmaster
(Moderator)

Cheeser says:

Muggle Wizard and everyone else: I've started a detailed analysis that will cover hints for books 6 and 7. Come on over.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 3:54 PM EST

Prefect

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 361

LaDonna says:

Just a little odd side note, did anyone else notice that Dumbledore calls Voldemort Tom? I know that's his real name, but the only other person to call him his real name in any of the books is Ginny at the end of the chamber of secrets. She calls him Riddle. It seems to unhinge old Voldy a little being called his real name.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 3:59 PM EST

Muggle

House: Gryffindor
Points: 58

phoenixfeathers says:

Aravis, you're right--I totally overlooked the secret keeper thing (I sped read). I think I'm just confused about a certain possibility--say for example LeStrange knows where the house is but doesn't know it's the Order's headquarters. If she did go there I wonder whether she wouldn't see it at all or simply not see it for what it was. I still don't understand the exact nature of the Secret Keeper thing.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 4:06 PM EST

Muggle

House: Gryffindor
Points: 58

phoenixfeathers says:

Aravis, you're totally right--I overlooked the Secret Keeper thing (I sped read). Anyway, I guess I was just confused about something related to the Secret Keeper thing. Does keeping a house secret mean that no one else can see it at all even if they knew it before? Like, if Lestrange knew where the house was and went looking for it, would she find it and simply not see it for what it was (the headquarters) or not see it at all?

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 4:10 PM EST

Muggle

House: Gryffindor
Points: 58

phoenixfeathers says:

Okay, for some reason, my posts aren't going through either. Aravis, you're totally right--I overlooked the secret keeper thing. But I'm still confused about something--say LeStrange knows the house and looks for it. Would she find it but not see it at all for what it is (the Order's headquarters) or simply not see it at all?

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 4:14 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

Jade,

Yes, the fountain is rather interesting, along with Dumbledore's implied support of Hermione's effort to bring the house-elves back to the same level of freedom as is enjoyed by the wizards. Could the destruction of that statue represent the future of the wizarding world -- an introduction of equality among these different races?

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 4:23 PM EST

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 203

macnstac says:

I was surprised that Ms. Figg was a Squib. I realized this book was darker but Harry is growing up and a lot of things were explained. It was interesting to know that Neville could have been the "Boy who lived". Can't wait for Book 6 to see if Harry will find a way to communicate with Sirius. It is odd that Harry was the only one to seem upset about his death.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 4:34 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

macnstac, remember that Harry actually saw Sirius pass through the veil. There is something about watching the end of a person's life. The adults perceive properly that he died in the line of duty and therefore consider it inappropriate to dwell on his death but rather push forward with the cause that he died for, so that his death might not be in vain. Most of the students don't even know that Sirius was on the good side (and furthermore, the wizarding community has no evidence that he did die -- only Order members, Neville and Harry, and the Death Eaters know that he died). Almost all of the students who did know about Sirius were not even around at the time. It will click with them a few days after they get home, I think.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 4:41 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

Hey, maybe in the next book(s) Lupin will start to become sort of a father figure to Harry? I always liked Lupin. hmmm...though if Voldemort went and killed Lupin I don't think Harry could handle it (well, I sure couldn't anyways). Just a thought.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 4:42 PM EST